Flop looseness (calling CB)

[petesrun]

Heyas,
I was playing a mouse tonight at 6 person SNG, big blind about 1/10th my stack size, he was big stack double mine, 5 players left.
his main stats;

hands played 1855
vpip 23
flop agg, turn agg; 1.6, 1.4
cold call; 8.5
fold BB to steal; 70%
he had weak stealing stats.

i raise up 3xbb on cut off with JKsuited.
i get called by his A6.
flop was 439 (rags).

I cb'ed 1/2 pot. He calls my flop bet there. And based on his stats i'm shocked he woudl make that loose call. Obviously if i'm raising on cut off and havent shown any psyco tendancies, he should be putting me on a range of A9+ - 44+ or worst hand would be KJ at worst which is what i had but he had no idea of course, usually mice dont fight much when they are a good chance of loosing.

Now i'm trying to figure out how I could have known he mighta made a loose call there by looking at his stats? If any one's interested we checked the turn. and the river was an A.. and as i didnt put him on A i put out a bluff in and got called because he had made the sickly loose flop cb call.

I'd really like to improve my use of PE stats and take it to another level so any tips much appreciated.

Pete.

[Boothill]

I cb'ed 1/2 pot. He calls my flop bet there. And based on his stats i'm shocked he woudl make that loose call. Obviously if i'm raising on cut off and havent shown any psyco tendancies, he should be putting me on a range of A9+ - 44+ or worst hand would be KJ at worst which is what i had but he had no idea of course, usually mice dont fight much when they are a good chance of loosing.
Pete.

your assuming that he is paying attention to the game, i try and never assume this because most players simply aren't, there playing a couple of games and have the t.v. going

just because i know i am playing tight i still usually expect these kinds of calls just because they are't paying close attention, he just knows he has and ace in the bb and figures it might be good vs. a late position raise

boot

[petesrun]

Hmmm... i understand what your saying i guess from my long history of sng's its super rare a mouse would stand his ground to a CB with a6 out of position, unless he had some special read on me. but i'm wondering if his Stats might be able to give me a clue as to his overall tendencies...

I'm not skilled with all the PE stats, is there anything that shows his looseness at calling "continuation bets" either in late position or early position?

His (fl-see) Turn see stat 64% which i thought seemed pretty normal for someone with 24 vpip.

[paul123]

Hi Pete,

You're not going to find the answers in his stats. It could be as simple as he felt like gambling. He could have also seen you make a play earlier and just didn't believe you. It is pretty certain now that if you bet the turn, he would have folded but there was no way for you to know this either.

[petesrun]

Paul,
I think indeedie you are right. Sometimes these guys do make moves that are totally at odds with their stats, rarely but it does happen, maybe they are drunk. I've also noticed if my table image appears overly aggresive (if i've had a run of cards), you can be certain even the tightest of mouse loosens up. For this reason sometimes I will fold raisable hands from the D or just limp because of their perceived notion I am stealing too much.

Is there any good links or places to really get into advanced use of stats? I'm confident using most of the stats but not everything that PE offers.

Thanks.

Hi Pete,

You're not going to find the answers in his stats. It could be as simple as he felt like gambling. He could have also seen you make a play earlier and just didn't believe you. It is pretty certain now that if you bet the turn, he would have folded but there was no way for you to know this either.

[petersv]

Well, it's really difficult to read the mind of an online player, even with the help of software like PE. I have also tried to "read" other players online and in my opinion it's nearly impossible. Good players regularly change their strategy and level of aggressiveness so that you can't read them.

[petesrun]

I loaded up some cash games recently and had PE running trustily away to help me.

A couple times I had passive red fish, with F, T and R aggresion stats of 1 and under, bet out at me and on both of these occasions I tenatively called down their bets being in position on them to showdown, only to see their cards and that they were on complete bluffs trying to shove me out of the pot.

That was very suprising. So suprising that I'm wondering if my username of CallYouDown may have given them an opposite tell on me, thinking with a name like that I am likely to be tight.. of course thats just speculation.

Overall with passive players with Agg stats of 1 or less I've found it SOOO rare that these guys bluff, let alone 3 bets from EP to river!

[anotheroldxppc]

i wonder if this standard-all-the-time saying the others wont think really applies... ?

when i play it seems 2 me mainly the multi-tablers are the ones not thinking -
they propably dont have to as they ushually most often only play best starting hands anyway.

the rest - me included, generally sits around and waits for good cards or spots.

one guy raises twice or another folds twice and i think ahh they raise, ahh they fold... ; )
now i look at the stats and check if they are inline whith what im thinking.

so, if a player sees you play he might / will think something too (even if its boobs and beer ; )
as well he might have stats on ya as well,
so besides checking out the other players your own table image always matters!

it can shift within hands: im very tight 14.6 and ushually dont get many calls.

and there often comes the moment where i will have to loosen up in order to achieve anything...
or the blinds start raising to high, so i bet out 1-2 hands and people fold.

if the monster comes next hand im golden, because they simply hate folding a 3rd or 4th time against the same player.
(i call it maniac syndrom - after a while you just cant let the guy go on - and wham the bugger has Aces...)

the funny-nicks-with-meanings
i find a bit tricky, because they might trigger things beyond control ; )
as you guessed, i might think pff lets bet and see if he really calls
or i might think he doesnt call or i might think lets bam on the guy with the funny nick...
all things that do not really belong into the game... but they can and do happen.

my rule for the nicks: i dont give much for them
and for my own play: i try to mix it up a bit, at least within my range ; )
50 left of 170 and im at the end of the line - damn i gotta go and try to save that tourney instead of wizemouthing ; )